Hi, guys! I'm new to this board, but have been following the great grammar lessons for some time now. I am trying to translate the following poem, but have really been struggling with it. If anyone could help me by correcting my translation, I would be very grateful

誘惑

世界はまだ終わらずにトラブルの破片を

ぼくが何と何のあいだに体をおいても打ち込んでくる

その複雑な音

それが地球のこわれてゆく音に聞こえるとしても

まだパーティーの途中で

眠る権利と目ざめる義務があり

発見されたばかりの生物のようにセクシーな

きみが鈴のついた足で近づいてくる夢もみる

きみはぼくとおなじことを心配しているが

けっしてそれを口にはしないだろう

My translation:

Temptation

Without the world not yet ending, I meanwhile hammered

the pieces of troubles into my body

That complicated sound

sounds as if the earth was breaking

Still in the middle of the party

sleeping privilege and awake duty

like the living creatures that have just been discovered

"sexy you" are also with "some kind of" legs watching approaching dreams

You are worrying about the same thing as me

but probably never speak of it

-----

何と何のあいだに = meanwhile?

体をおいても打ち込んでくる = おいて as in おく? 

それ = refers to 複雑な音?

鈴のついた足で = with 鈴 (bell) legs?

Welcome MeowMeowさん！

As far as your last questions--without reading it--I can answer all but what それ refers to cause I haven't read it yet. Will by the end of this message though. [:)]

I'll go backwards.

With legs with bells attached*,

If we put おいて in Kanji, it would be 置いても.

何（なん）と何（なん） essentially stresses 何

Consider the following rearrangement

何と何の間に僕が世界は終わらずにトラブルの破片を打ち込んで体をおいてもくる。

くる is intransitive. 打ち込む is clearly transitive. を ＝ through with intransitive verbs. For example, 雨の中を歩く.

Here's my translation. Let's try to compare.

または、「それ」が詩を読んだゆえに、「世界はまだ終わらずにトラブルの破片をぼくが何と何のあいだに体をおいても打ち込んでくる」のことをさしていると思います。

Temptation

Without the world ending yet, I hammer in the fragments of trouble in whatever (amount of) time even through my body.

The complex sound

Even if that could be heard in the sound of the world going to crash, I still have the duty to awake and the right to sleep in the middle of the party, and I still dream of sexy you approaching with bells on your legs like a just discovered creature.

You're worrying about the same thing as me, but you probably won't ever speak of it.

I think you messed up on としても. The rest looks really good.

Try to not to make the Japanese word ordering match exactly with English in translation. As you can see, I took into account the actual normal phrasing in english, even if it meant waiting a while to say a line.

-----------------------------------

You've been around for a while? So, how do you like the new project going on? Right now I'm almost done with the first half of the new lesson for と. The project is really going slow because it's a lot of work. Poems like this really do test your knowledge.

Words cannot describe my gratitude! Thank you so much! I'm especially grateful you took the time to explain things. This japanese poetry really got to my nerves.

I came upon your site while trying to figure out some classical japanese verb endings and I thought I was going berserk until one of your online grammar lessons saved me (thank you, Mr. Google ;)) I actually had 2 semesters of classical japanese, but that time everything the lecturer said was gibberish to me. Boy, if me and my schoolmates stumbled upon your lessons back then! I also took notice of other lessons as well and I was blown away. Believe me, there are so many textbooks, grammar dictionaries, workbooks on my shelves, I've lost count. But it is like they're competing against each other who will sound more complex. Your explanation, however, is so simple and straightforward, I've immediately bookmarked your page and is now sitting in the Chrome quick bookmark bar with the rest of my most used language tools. So, again, thank you.

I've been working on this project, trying to translate some japanese poetry. Some are easy, some just make me want to bash the computer I'm far from being fluent, so my dictionaries and grammar books are my best friends, but there is just something about the verse order, pronouns and a different pace to the language that I'm normally used to, that is really testing me out.

I have one last poem that I need help with, but it's longer and I don't wish to burden you any more as you've already helped me so much. But maybe if you have the time, I would greatly appreciate it, if you could take a look?

MeowMeow

P.S. Sorry for the mistakes, english is not my mother tongue.

Here it is:

みずうみ

なつかしい鉄道の、なつかしい駅から

なつかしいみずうみにむかって

歩きだしてしまった

靄のなか。

進む。進まない。

同時にやろうとしているから

踊れない。枯枝と枯葉と苔に親しみ、音から

透きとおる冬の生きものになるはずの

この体でつくる

灰色の自転車に乗っているのは

きみだとしても、きみのいちばん硬い部分だ。

それでも、困らないのか。

人の世。

心をこすりつけてきた悪童たちが消えて

粗雑に、寒い迷路をたのしむしかない

スケジュールがこなされている。

それとはなんの関係もなさそうに

濃密な水をたたえている

みずうみ。濁ることを

おそれるだれを犠牲にして

どんな波と速度が

ぼくときみのあいだに立ち上がるのか。

溺れる者の傲慢さも

謙虚さも理解しない村が

リアーナやレディー・ガガをきいている。

待ってくれ。

幼い指に握られたぼくのハンドルは

まだ炎を感じていない。

みずうみ、その底にある心臓の打つ音が

たくさんの人の思いのとおった

水の上を逃げていく。

ストーブのないきみの部屋に

ぼくを食べてしまった岸辺の寒さが忍びよる。

My translation:

The lake

In the mist

I started to walk

From the beloved station of the beloved railway

Towardsthe beloved lake.

I make my way. I don’t make my way.

BecauseI’m doing it at the same time,

I cannot dance. I’m fond of dead branches and withered leaves and moss,

Creatures of winter should become transparent by the sound.

Even if the grey bicycle, made from this body,

is driven by you, it is still the hardest part of you.

Nevertheless, are you not troubled?

People of the society.

Naughty boys that have had their hearts wiped off have disappeared,

roughly, the schedule of only enjoying the cold labyrinth

has been broken to pieces.

Besides that, the relationship is also unlikely.

The lake, filled with thick water. Who, afraid

of the muddiness, will be sacrificed?

What waves and what velocity rise up

between me and you?

A drowning man’s arrogance and

modesty??? さも ??the unknown village

is listening to Rihanna and Lady Gaga.

Wait!

My steering wheel between the childish fingers

has not yet felt flames.

The lake, the beating sound of a heart on it’s bottom

is escaping through a lot of people’s memories

over the water.

In your room without a heater

is hiding the coldness of the shore that ate me.

Oh, the next one. That may have to wait after lunch to get to, but I would like to give some tips about Japanese.

1. Don't assume that Japanese people know what they're talking about. There have been many video games and shows where characters speak in faulty Classical Japanese.

2. Remember that Classical Japanese covers tons of centuries. Classical Japanese spelling is sometimes inconsistent and you need to be aware about different dialects.

3. Be sure to take some time before starting Classical Japanese. In other words, be sure to read a lot of Modern first. You're more likely to see fossilized usages of Classical Japanese in Modern that way. 言わずもがな comes to mind.

My goal for this site is to have it teach everything you'd get out of a dictionary, in the actual Japanese classroom, and still having all the cultural information and nuance information to speak it truly right in a way that makes it not feel like an encyclopedia but an ever progressive easy-to-read text.

The remodel project is really going to help people like you even more. Things will be moved, so be aware of that if you end up on a different page.

Consequently, the Classical Japanese section will not be worked on for some time. I'm still studying it myself, but it's not by any means a complete challenge. 

Not being fluent in Modern Japanese does make Classical Japanese harder. Poetry, though, in any language I think, is going to look different than regular spoken language because people are being purposely creative in their word choice.

I'll definitely get to the poem for you. First, though, I'll answer the question appendexed.

傲慢さ　＝　Arrogance　　さ　＆ み are important in adjectival nominalization. The lesson for this is currently 108.

From a quick view, your translation looks very good. I'll do my own version later so you can compare.

懐かしい is really like "dear".

Because I'm trying at the same time*. It's not negative

親しむ = to be intimate with

Remember that in English that we normally list things with commas after two things and then and is used with the last item.

[枯枝と枯葉と苔に親しみ、音から透きとおる冬の生きものになるはずの][この体でつくる灰色の自転車に乗っている] is all one long complex modifier of の. I separated the segments modifiying の which is taking place of 者.

So, here you would be wrong. Don't worry though. It's just that you need to realize that long phrases are often used adjectivally in Japanese.

枯枝と枯葉と苔に親しみ、音から透きとおる冬の生きものになるはずのこの体でつくる灰色の自転車に乗っているのはきみだとしても、きみのいちばん硬い部分だ。

A long sentence, isn't it?
Even if it were you riding on the grey bicycle built with this body and you that should become a wintry creature intimate with dead leaves, dead branches and moss and that are transparent from sound, it'd be your hardest part.

心をこすりつけてきた悪童たちが消えて粗雑に、寒い迷路をたのしむしかないスケジュールがこなされている。

A few problems.

1. Wrong definition of konasu.
2. The attributive phrase modifying 悪童 is not in the passive voice.
3. 迷路 translated with slightly bad English.

So, let's look at this logically.
The naughty kids who/that nozzing the hearts of the people of the world (bringing in the line from people) (have) disappeared, and the schedule of having no choice but to to enjoy the cold blind alley is roughly being managed.

こなす in this context means "to manage". Examples of this include

ノルマをこなす。
多くをこなさねばいけない。

それとはなんの関係もなさそうに濃密な水をたたえているみずうみ。
The lake filled with thick water also not even having relation with that.

This is basically completely backwards coming from the English perspective.

濁ることをおそれるだれを犠牲にしてどんな波と速度がぼくときみのあいだに立ち上がるのか。
Sacrificing whom who are afraid of being muddy, what kind of wave and velocity is to rise in between you and me?

Some of this may just be English problems rather than understanding the Japanese. Which, that'd be much better to have that as the problem.

溺れる者の傲慢さも謙虚さも理解しない村がリアーナやレディー・ガガをきいている。

Ouch. It looks like the sentence kicked your butt. lol
It is the village that can't understand not only the arrogance but the humility of those drowning is listening to Rihanna & Lady Gaga. (with the sense that the list is not complete).

幼い指に握られたぼくのハンドル
My handle that was seized by young/immature fingers.

Your's could work too, it's just I feel this to be more suited.

みずうみ、[その底にある心臓の打つ]音が[たくさんの人の思いのとおった水の]上を逃げていく。

The brackets indicate attributive phrases. This is what you get with poetry.
The lake, the sound of the heartbeat in the bottom is to escape through the tops of the water permeated with the thoughts of many people.

ストーブのないきみの部屋にぼくを食べてしまった岸辺の寒さが忍びよる。

The coldness of the shore that ate me creeps in your room that has no stove.

I will give a grade on your translation: 75. However, I give your understanding of Japanese an 85.
Why the difference? Your understanding of Japanese is apparent from the words at least used. Whether this was with or without dictionary aid, you can use them correctly for the most part. A lot of the mistakes were just from odd English. I'm sure with the explanations they make sense.

As far as lessons to research, I would suggest reading the following.

9, 10, 25, 50,  61, 62, and 64. If you check these out and have any questions, feel free to ask.

Good job. You're still doing really good, especially when considering that you're trying to translate Japanese poems in another foreign language.

Hi back Meow. I dunno what's going on here tldr; but he is "MY" Sensei and mine alone. I found him first. Go get your own young dedicated passionate educated knowledgable diligent awesome Japanese teacher!!

Nah I'm joking I'll share him with you. Just a bit. A very minuscule tiny wee little bit only ok?

A bit of a hyperbole, no? Lol, you've returned. ともかく、MeowMeowさん、質問はまだありますか。’

I can live with "a bit".

I wasn't gone in the first place, I'm always watching "over" you from down below. Wait is that possible? Anyway I hope you have not given up on "improvement" in the very general sense, and more specifically to the website. Don't want to go off-topic though. Over and out

I don't know if your location is technically above mine. I think it may be about the same distance from the equator. 

Threads are bound to more than likely go off-topic. I know you come frequently. After all, you're the only visitor that comes from Iran. It's a good thing we have you on board though. I'm happy that more determined students are joining like yourself. 

I've still been working on the project. I actually got some significant work done today. I'm in the process of moving examples to higher lessons and really making things look nice. The remodel will still probably take several more weeks to fully implement. Then, after that, I will continue on to actually working on IMABI IV. I might just make a new lesson soon just for the heck of it. 

I take the pun, but I must insist, for many reasons that, I'm way down below, metaphroically and considering Japanese knowledge.

Glad to hear you've been so vigorously pushing on with continuous efforts to bring lazy *cough cough* hazi..ly umm amazed students like myself, the profound and astute lessons, in a yet more "eye-candy" sort of environment. Glad to hear it :- )

もう目を引くキャンディーみたいじゃん？

nani kore  (ツ)
I don't really know what that means but it's a question right? haaaaaaai is your answer...

That's clever. I said basically said, "isn't it already eye candy?". lol, the answer is yes. 

Hi!

I'm sorry for the late reply - I had to take a break from all this computer/dicitionary stuff and rest a bit :)However, with your help, I managed to translate the poem and I was most happy with it. Again, thanks for your help.

As for "sharing" your vast knowledge, I believe the more people you help, the better you are of becoming an even better teacher.

Have you ever been to Japan?

That is very true. Teaching is the best way to learn .I think it's how I've learned so much so quickly. Sadly, I have not visited Japan, but I am actually planning to in 2013.